Re: Everything is stories - is it true? /andy

--- In "Hypegia Phoebe" wrote: I suspect that you wrote the statement below primarily to Facy, not me (although my name is on the Subject Line). I am adding my two cents regardless. :-)) What you say below, everything your write, is in accord with my experience. Very clear, very precise. Yes, it is thoughts which cause the suffering. That is certainly a big part of the story, but it is only, again in my experience, part of the story. By itself, it may lead to what I call one of the "Myths of The Work." That "myth" is that The Work can do it all. If one questions hard enough, long enough. If one has the drive to dissect each and every upsetting thought, it is possible to eradicate suffering. The "myth" is twofold: 1) some of the day-to-day suffering can't ever be eradicated because it is bound up in our all-to-human circumstances: having a body that changes and, ultimately dies; 2) having a body that is subject to the vicissitudes of life in that it will get sick, injured, aged, and fail us from time to time; and, most importantly, 3) that all of life is impermanent; nothing persists, neither us, our loved ones, nor our joys. SOME of this can be accepted and in that process, transcended to some degree. And with The Work, or meditation, or prayer, some of the everyday suffering can be "held" in a way that it is not ordinarily experienced. But it does disappear entirely. But the overwhelming sting of the suffering can be lessened to a point where it is not an issue any longer. The second part of the "myth" is that it is always possible to undo deep-seated, very-early childhood wounds, psychic injuries, all by one's self, doing The Work. I would not assert that this never happens, but in my limited experience, what usually results is denial, repression, or delusion whereby one has a superficial, and relief from the suffering, only to have it come back and bite one when one's psychic reserves aren't strong. In my experience, for individuals with early "wounds," psychotherapy is often the best first option. Even meditation is frequently ineffective with these cases. There must be some kind of psychic stability to engage successfully in meditation (or The Work). Jack Engler, a noted is well-known for stating "One must be a self before one can lose one's self" (from of Psychotherapy, when done with a therapist with which there is trust, security, and compassion (read "resonance"), can often help clear away the primary confusion which has become lodged in the conditioning and has persisted in creating deep and unrelenting suffering. In the wake of that, The Work can operate effectively. Without that initial healing, it is the very rare individual who can get to the core of the issue, see it for the chimera it is, and supply the psychological tools to dissolve it. (Reminiscent of the old joke which goes: "a person who treats himself has a fool for a doctor.") Without the therapy, what I've seen happen is that the individual spins and spins, furiously doing The Work, and going nowhere very fast. (I've seen this even more with meditation students who seek out deep states of meditative "bliss" to eradicate their suffering. And this sometimes works WHILE the individual is meditating. It doesn't help, however, outside the meditation room.) Again, this is for a specific "class" of suffering: "wounds" that are imparted at a very early age. And yes, I know of BK's work with incest victims. I've seen the videos, read the transcripts. I don't doubt that something happens in her presence and that something is, in some way, soothing and maybe even healing. I am not convinced that long-term healing has happened, however. That something has been seen, and some initial step towards healing has happened...yes, that is clear. But I do not know how long that lasts nor how deep it goes. I am somewhat suspicious of any "method" that can, in 1-2 hours, clear away a psychic injury that has had decades to become entrenched. It seems like actually, not how the mind actually works. In any case, just my pov. Take it for what its worth. In all probability it's likely valid for some and nonsense for others. I would say unquestioned thinking is suffering. There is reality and then there is the objects of thoughts running through our heads through which we see the world. It is possible to see that it is the *thoughts* that cause suffering, not the world. If you could pluck a thought out of your head like a grape and examine it separately and see the stressful emotions tied to it, you'd know that it is just the thought doing its dirty work in your head and not reality. When you challenge the thought to the four questions it educates you on how that thought is raising havoc in your life and is not necessary. It'll drop away once the mind realizes a stressful thought doesn't serve a beneficial purpose. The thought just doesn't work anymore for you and *blip!* it dissolves to the ground like a freed Some thoughts are harder to work than others, they seem more believable, or your own ego just doesn't want to let it go because the ego is scared of losing its identity. I went through such a process of identity crisis, of not knowing what was going to be left if I had questioned all these beliefs of mine. That's a natural progression of any spiritual work. What's left, though, is so much more lighter, joyful, spontaneous, etc. But that's not something I can convince you of. It is your own to experience as you go through it--or not. This is called The Work and it does take work and time, and coming from my own experience it is totally worth it. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: Your shop settings: Individual shop | Traditional To change settings online go to: (Yahoo! ID required) To change settings via shop: To Purchase from this group, send an shop to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

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